Curse

kratimas · Mar 07, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I have never meet a skill balance I didn't like

Krat

bungusmaximus · Mar 07, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Without balances PvP would be unplayable ages ago. PvE however is still healthy.

Squishy ftw · Mar 07, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Second, about PvP vs PvE. A question I'm wondering is how these changes affect your ability to play PvE. To me, I actually enjoy some of the changes, because a lot of the builds I normally run are getting buffed (enfeebling blood comes to mind). Granted, some get nerfed (the fire henchmen in EotN), but I can deal with that by either changing to another build or staying with the same build because it's still solid enough to tackle the hardest tasks thrown at me with no problem in PvE (vanqing, harder dungeons, elite zones).

I couldn't agree more with this.

I'm mainly a PvE player but I like all the skill balances anet throws at us. Because this means I can have a close look at all my and my heros' skill bars again, and if possible, make them even better.
And this is the part of GW I enjoy the most

Dr Strangelove · Mar 07, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Skill balance days breathe new life into the game for me. I get to go through and rethink all my builds, which I find really fun. I can't imagine how dull it must be to run the same builds against the same AI endlessly, or what on earth would motivate people to do that.

I'm in the minority here, but I wish skill balances were more common and more drastic, just to shake things up. A big enough skill balance is like a new chapter coming out for me

.

N1ghtstalker · Mar 07, 2008, 08:59 AM // 08:59

I'm more of a PvE player but some proffessions are more favored then other proffessions
they're nerfing the hell out of sin's and necro's are getting buffed

arcanemacabre · Mar 07, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Skill balance days breathe new life into the game for me. I get to go through and rethink all my builds, which I find really fun. I can't imagine how dull it must be to run the same builds against the same AI endlessly, or what on earth would motivate people to do that.

I'm in the minority here, but I wish skill balances were more common and more drastic, just to shake things up. A big enough skill balance is like a new chapter coming out for me

.

Entirely QFT. This is exactly how I feel.

This latest update, the only complaint I have is with WY!, and that is way overshadowed by all the yummy it came with. It seems like all the updates are like that for me. There is usually just one thing, such as pets no longer leaving corpses, or the initial Soul Reaping nerf (fine after the revision), that I just don't like, but I deal.

I also completely understand the balancing around PvP. Sure, it would be nice if they were separate mechanics, but that is how GW was built from the ground up - it ain't happenin'. So, best to just deal with it. Besides, that's what those insanely imba PvE-skills are for.

Toa Hahli · Mar 07, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Only reason i dont like em is Anet only listens to whiney PvP'ers that are too stupid to counter a build so they go Q.Q to anet. Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!
I mean come on, Did 'Watch Yourself!' really need to be made practially useless?

Edit: One Buff they could add is a Hero AI, theyre so damn stupid. Especially Zhed, you flag him to the back yet he runs up into the enemies face.

Wildi · Mar 07, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

its not skill balances what people dislike but since the most skills are balanced around issues in gvg many skill changes become unfair, useless or stupid in pve, sometimes its the other way around and a skill which is balanced in gvg becomes overpowered in pve. However anet favors pvp, their opinions and interests get priority, this way the so called elite is able to take control and ruins the game for the masses. Its pretty retarded to think that pve is not affected (we have the same skills, no?) even ha & gvg are too different and would require separate skill balances, a necro can shine in ha and in gvg he is garbage. Lets just think for a moment, was Mending Refrain und Watch Yourself really overpowered in pve ? Augury of Death maybe or Flame Djinn's Haste or Shadow Stepping ? Do you see now why people dislike nerfs for the sake of pvp ?

JR · Mar 07, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toa Hahli

Only reason i dont like em is Anet only listens to whiney PvP'ers that are too stupid to counter a build so they go Q.Q to anet. Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!.

Whiney PvPers that understand the mechanics and balance of this game far better than you ever will.

BlackSephir · Mar 07, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Because AN has tendency to: not adress the problem directly, overnerf or overbuff skills, forgetting about 'the lost ones' is also one of their faults. Random buffs are not so bad but are, uh, random. We don't need random.
On the other hand, it attracts many guys whose e-peens are so huge they can't take it anymore, so they show-off on Guru.
Horrible creatures, I avoid them whenever I can.

Quote:

I love skill balances. It brings out so many people to add to the list of people I never want to play this game with.

Dang, so ironic and true at the same time, how do you do that?

The Meth · Mar 07, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

People are afraid that they might have to use the smallest amount of intelligence to think up a new build every time they see one of their skills is 5% less effective, and would rather go online and complain about it.

Going over the nerfs one by one, I can find maybe 4 skills that I don't think were overpowered enough to need it. The rest were all pretty much the skills everyone who ran a certain profession/attribute absolutely HAD to take. The only skill I see over nerfed (and by that I mean ether renewal nerfed) was watch yourself, but it was still too good before.

Remember, when you nerf a skill, you give every other skill in the game a relative buff. It helps bring about (hopefully) more fun and diverse strategies.

Toa Hahli · Mar 07, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

People are afraid that they might have to use the smallest amount of intelligence to think up a new build every time they see one of their skills is 5% less effective, and would rather go online and complain about it.

Going over the nerfs one by one, I can find maybe 4 skills that I don't think were overpowered enough to need it. The rest were all pretty much the skills everyone who ran a certain profession/attribute absolutely HAD to take. The only skill I see over nerfed (and by that I mean ether renewal nerfed) was watch yourself, but it was still too good before.

Remember, when you nerf a skill, you give every other skill in the game a relative buff. It helps bring about (hopefully) more fun and diverse strategies.

Meh, either way this 'Sweep' has hardly effected me. I find it rather funny to sit in town and watch Dervs moan and groan about about Mystic Regen when its really not a big change, hasnt effected most of the builds i use.

DreamRunner · Mar 07, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Its actually to do with the mentality of people in general. If people try to think of back on things, most people think on the negative side of things. "This happened and people were angry, it wasn't my fault!" or "I should have done this so such and such wouldn't happen." Bad things always stand out, more than the good. People seem to btich and moan at even the slightest bad shit happening, but if an really good thing happens, people seem normal about it. Like they're expecting it.

I think its to do with people's constant drive to be happy. People want to be happy ALL the time, and things that make them feel good. eg. People buy things to be happy. So this drive all the time and making bad things obsolete has a bigger impact upon the person when a bad thing happens.

People also hate change since its going into an unknown. How many people are scared of the unknown? Lots and lots of people. Even though change is happening all around us and many people are actually are unaware of it, people are definitely scared of it.

upier · Mar 07, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Second, about PvP vs PvE. A question I'm wondering is how these changes affect your ability to play PvE. To me, I actually enjoy some of the changes, because a lot of the builds I normally run are getting buffed (enfeebling blood comes to mind). Granted, some get nerfed (the fire henchmen in EotN), but I can deal with that by either changing to another build or staying with the same build because it's still solid enough to tackle the hardest tasks thrown at me with no problem in PvE (vanqing, harder dungeons, elite zones).

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Redwood_Shepherd
Change skills because of PvP - change PvE foes because of the PvP skill balances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Whiney PvPers that understand the mechanics and balance of this game far better than you ever will.

See that's the problem.
The fact that the rules that PvP skills are balanced on are broken or don't even exist in PvE.
So no - the "whiney PvPers" understand the mechanics and balance of the PvP game better then I ever will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

lol?

Kiting....preprotting.....

how the hell do you get hit by a 500+ damage Spirit Rift, unless if like, you're using your head to move your guy.

Seriously dude, not only is it the most obvious and slow skill animation ever, but you have a couple seconds to move.

That's what I've been telling Danika all the time!
Girl, pre-prot your ass or move!
Ohh wait ...

Savio · Mar 07, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So no - the "whiney PvPers" understand the mechanics and balance of the PvP game better then I ever will.

There is no PvE balance, and the mechanics aren't that different. And, believe it or not, some PvPers play PvE as well.

Qdq Swi · Mar 07, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Whiney PvPers that understand the mechanics and balance of this game far better than you ever will.

Whiney PvPers might understand the game mechanics and balances in PvP, doesnt neceserily mean that they know two shits about PvE.

Anyway.. not like the updates had much effect on any of the nerfed skills anyway. Dervs were always crap.. now they are just a little bit worse. Either way.. Mystic Regen still works fine for most builds. I'm actually happy with the buffs to the necromancer... 1 sec cast time Enfeebling Blood + 1 energy cost, 1 sec cast time + AoE to Weaken Armor and Wail Of Doom is now usable.

Tyla · Mar 07, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I love skill balances...
So many bad players screaming "omgz dey nerfd my skeelz".
These are the kind of people screaming for originality aswell, quite hypocritical if you ask me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Whiney PvPers might understand the game mechanics and balances in PvP, doesnt neceserily mean that they know two shits about PvE.

...PvE is easy to learn tbh...
Do you understand how easy AI is to take advantage of?

upier · Mar 07, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

There is no PvE balance, and the mechanics aren't that different. And, believe it or not, some PvPers play PvE as well.

You mean like:
- double damage from the bosses
- double casting speed
- double attack speed
- additional energy regen
- half hex duration
- massive armour
- massive HP
- immunity to certain game effects
- environmental effects
This means that all skills that are balanced on normal damage, casting time, attack speed, ... are underpowered in PvE.

And not having any PvE balance is the reason why we have "Nerf Ursan"-threads popping up weekly.
If A.Net treated PvE the same way as PvP (in better AND worse!) - Ursan would have never been possible!

My only problem are the people that fail to understand that playing PvP does not give them the full picture of the game that is GW. I don't have a problem with them giving comments about the skills in PvP - but if they fail to understand the difference in the game mechanics between PvE and PvP - their view is equally flawed as that PvEs's guy that never does PvP yet thinks that he owns the world. (Well a BIT less since we are talking about skill balances ...

)

JDRyder · Mar 07, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toa Hahli

Well Excuuuuuuuse me for not taking a video game as serious as you no lifer PvP'ers. I get hit with a 500+ Damage Spirit Rift but you dont see me go and bitch to Anet about it.

this is what hes talking about :P use prot spirit

hes right and i dont think its taking the game "serious" as much as using ur head more. in pvp you have to use your head and play better than in pve to get the titles ect, not to say a pver cant do this but for the most part pvers have a lack of willing to learn any thing but MM,wamo,ursan and fire ele

and ive met more "no lifers" in pve than in pvp, at least the people that are good at pvp make money off it, and if your going to say pro gamers have no life you also have to say thing about pro sports players

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You mean like:
- double damage from the bosses
- double casting speed
- double attack speed
- additional energy regen
- half hex duration
- massive armour
- massive HP
- immunity to certain game effects
- environmental effects

but as you say they die in 5 secs any way.....

mesmers ftw [skill]Diversion[/skill][skill]Signet of Humility[/skill][skill]Shatter Enchantment[/skill][skill]Guilt[/skill][skill]Energy Surge[/skill][skill]Energy Burn[/skill] o and this is always fun [skill]Blackout[/skill]

[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill][skill]Arcane Thievery[/skill][skill]Arcane Larceny[/skill][skill]Revealed Hex[/skill][skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill][skill]Ether Feast[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill]rez

yay for disabling damage ...

The Meth · Mar 07, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You mean like:
- double damage from the bosses
- double casting speed
- double attack speed
- additional energy regen
- half hex duration
- massive armour
- massive HP
- immunity to certain game effects
- environmental effects
This means that all skills that are balanced on normal damage, casting time, attack speed, ... are underpowered in PvE.

Half of those effects are very limited in the area or specific enemies using them, two of them are completely irrelevent, the other are made meaningless or made into an advantage by one of the following: Prot spirit, Spiteful Spirit, Broad head arrow.

PvE is a little different, sure, but I think we can all agree that any decent PvP player could easily beat 95% of PvE on their first try.